Darlo Debs
3:20 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Mike yes i do accept that as a valid point but the difference here is that people can still get what the symbol means and where it came from. It still about anti-discrimination and civil.rights it doesn't hold the same toxicity as a swastilka .
I daresay they may even choose a different way to mark.the campaign but as long as people boo they will just assume they are booing the message that racism.has no room.in football.
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Golden Oldie
3:15 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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It is simple
If you agree with the message support it.
If you don't or vehemently disagree with it voice your opposition if you want.
It's a game of football, not an agreed upon experiment in social engineering of human coercion and control.
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goose
3:13 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Well said Chester.
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ChesterRd
3:11 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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No fans inside the stadium are being asked to take the knee. It's the players who are and it's to show solidarity against racism. Sometimes you just have to shut up and get on with things, that's what those players who don't particularly want to take the knee are doing and it's what fans inside the ground should be doing as well. We are literally talking about something that lasts, what 10-15 seconds. Whether I agree with it is irrelevant, it's not all about me. I have to do things every day of my life that I don't particularly want to so. Why do some people on here think they can just do and act how they like? You are not in your own home, you are in someone else's property. I know in advance taking the knee is going to take place and if it was going to cause me that much offence I wouldn't attend in the first place. If I choose to attend I can remain in the concourse until it's over, go to the loo, check my phone, talk to my mate, think about what I'm having for my tea or see if I can chew gum and scratch my arse at the same time. What I wouldn't do is act in a way that drags the club and fan base through the mud like the Millwall boo boys have done to their club.
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Lily Hammer
3:10 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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MO
That’s a good point.
The premier league know they fucked up putting BLM on all the shirts after the restart, promoting political ideas that go far beyond racial equality, that’s why they changed it to No Room For Racism, but it’s too late, as most people still think BLM when they see players taking the knee.
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Mike Oxsaw
2:59 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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What does the swastika symbol mean to you?
What was it's original meaning before it was misappropriated in the 20th century?
Try walking around north London with a big fuck-off swastika on your T-shirt explaining that you're wearing it to convey it's original (and still often used) meaning of love, peace and good luck.
You're likely to come away with little change and even less of your teeth.
In the same way, but to a lesser degree, the "taking the knee" symbol, once a sign of showing support for black people's struggles (and I don't doubt for a second that they have many) has been misappropriated by the political BLM from it's original meaning to that invoking a destruction of all that our ancestors have laboured to build.
THAT is what it's continued use is saying.
If you've managed to read this far without your head exploding, this is NOT comparing BLM with Nazis, it's showing how a symbol that was once positive can be politically manipulated to take on and retain the opposite connotation.
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only1billybonds
2:59 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Debs.
Who was the player whobdudnt partake? If you cant remember thats fine but let me know which two teams were playing please.
Anyone thinking that any player saying he wasnt getting involved because its getting political is having a laugh. See what i said about cowardice on the other thread.
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Golden Oldie
2:58 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Seeing as the one's who think we must all conform to every political agenda the elite force upon us can only think and feel in slogans and mantras:
"Your silence is compliance!"
If you've been locked down at home watching in disbelief as all the media, politicians and corporates ramming this BLM shit down your throats and reject the notion we should bend the knee to this political badgering we're being subjected to 24/7 in sports, it is everyone's duty to voice your opposition when given an opportunity, considering the actual real people are having their tongues cut-out in every arena of political discourse in favour of protecting this poisonous neoliberal antiwhite agenda from any criticism.
If you didn't boo, then you must approve of this.
My favourite was hearing all the wankers on radio/TV/media last night demanding anyone caught booing at football should be banned for life.
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Darlo Debs
2:58 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Except i don't and goose has already explained what is going on now and yet you are still saying that players should be brave and stand against the idea there is no room.for racism.
Do.you think there should be a bit of room.for the occasional.Golden Oldie of the football world to come out and say yeah course there is a bit of wriggle room for bigotry?
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ironsofcanada
2:51 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Darlo Debs 2:29 Sun Dec 6
"I believe little if anything that politicians say"
Going from your posts this is not true. You believe them pretty much automatically if they agree with you. Remember.
Same thing with the players here.
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goose
2:50 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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And they are explaining what it means to them & why they’re doing it.
Once they do that, then you are booing them.
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boleynkid
2:48 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Goose,
It's not really the players that are being booed is it. It's what it represents that is being booed.
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Lily Hammer
2:47 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Lily Hammer 2:46 Sun Dec 6
Re: Millwall boo BLM kneeling...first of many?
Booing was not a good idea, though I’m sure many or most that did it were not pro-racism, whatever Dion Dublin says.
I believe my suggestion would have been better, if all had stood and sung “Stand up, if you hate racists!”
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boleynkid
2:46 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Goose,
We have been through this all before but you want to separate the players feelings from the fans and you can't.
I do understand where you are coming from but it won't work. What happened at Millwall yesterday will happen at West Ham. We want to avoid the unpleasantness so time for the knee gesture to stop as it has been going on too long and will have to stop at some point anyway ie similar to clapping for the NHS.
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goose
2:45 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Up to the players really isn’t it?
If they say ‘we’ll continue to do it as an anti-racism gesture’, you still gonna boo them?
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boleynkid
2:42 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Continuing to get behind a #kickitout message is fine, I can't see anyone having a problem with that. However, kneeling is, like it or not (correct or not) seen as support of the BLM movement and everyone is not ok with that. People have their reasons.
This is going to become more of an issue at West Ham in the coming weeks/months and it is best all round if the matter is dealt with soon.
We appeared to have a situation yesterday where the usual 2nd "Bubbles" was cancelled to, presumably, allow a quiet moment for the players symbolic gesture. That won't work when fans return and will have consequences.
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goose
2:35 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Said before, Millwall released a statement by the players distancing themselves from the political stuff & wanting to focus on anti-racism.
And they still booed an anti-racism gesture.
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Darlo Debs
2:29 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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I believe little if anything that politicians say but as has been clearly outlined by goose this gesture has become a symbol.of the no room.for racism campaign which was running before the BLM thing came back.into.the public eye again. So yes if the players were not supporting a no room.for racism.campaign (however that was being played out) they'd not look.good to anyone really would they?
Unless someone thinks there is room for racism.
That is different to supporting the blm movement though and as mentioned there has already been a player that didn't kneel.for that...and i think the others would probably stop too as uts much more political.and haven't some playwrs already expressed concern about supporting political.issues?
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ironsofcanada
2:14 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Darlo Debs 1:32 Sun Dec 6
Do you believe everything politicians say?
Those are people in the public eye that could always tell the truth if they wanted to. But for various reason, some don't.
Assuming that players would always express their opinions (be true to themselves) is like assuming politicians always tell the truth (be true to themselves.)
A very political issue and gesture has been broadened/marketed into an idea that the vast majority of people rightly agree with. You really don't think a player would think there is nothing to lose by publicly disagreeing with it (or a politician by always telling the truth)?
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Darlo Debs
2:09 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Have you thought for a minute that might actually want to do.it. your tone seems to be that they are being forced to do.it. i am not convinced as there was a player i saw not do.it recently and didn't hear of a massive backlash against him.
If players are doing this to show solidarity with black.players against discrimination then as i have said they will hear booing and just take that to mean they have a point and will carry on doing it.
You pay your money and take your chouce and if you are so vehemently against players doing this then when allowed to.go back.in in numbers, then just don't go.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:56 Sun Dec 6
Re: Rule Britannia - Saturday
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Darlo Debs 1:32 Sun Dec 6
Do you not have peer pressure in your part of the world?
It is rarelytalked about directly (the good old British beat-about-the-bush) but peer pressure is a very real and present danger - you only have to look at how the BLM "cause" dominated all aspects of (media-driven, and that is everyone) life.
It still does. If there were no peer pressure on taking the knee, as has ben intemated already, a large number of players would abandon it in favour, probably of a football specific cause/image.
At a more Neanderthal level, you only have to look at the reaction of some on here at the very mention of "Millwall" - and I know the story behind that issue.
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